Quote by Jedilicious

The problem I had today was when you announced the split in gchat you explicitly told members (who were surprised by and questioning that decision) that there had been an open discussion on the forums and that no one had complained - thus you had made the decision you did. When a few of us came to the forums to see this public discussion, there was not one to be found.

Thus my feeling of a bait-and-switch... that we were told one thing in-game to quiet any discussion/questions that did not end up being true when we got to the forums.

There wasn't even an announcement on the forums about the split. Thus I created this topic asking what was going on.

Even tonight, Justjon was the only 'Captain' in-game doing invites. One of the other members asked about the guild split and a discussion ensued... and there are no Officers around to field questions or discuss what's going on with the guild. Poor Jon got ambushed, and I feel bad for him.

I think there maybe a little confusion on what was said. I believe Zep stated that it had been mentioned on the forums that we'd need to create additional guilds in-game. Zepari would not have said that there was an open discussion on the forums about the topic because he knows very well that there wasn't. I think this was simply a miss-communication.

We were planning the announcement sometime this week, but making recruitment posts for Captains and Officers were more important and Zep only has so much free time to make the posts. This past weekend was the first time we'd been able to meet for an Officers meeting since the holiday season began and there was when we made the final decisions about the alt guilds.

Quote by Jedilicious

The game is 3 weeks old. Major changes are happening with the guild. Where are you guys? In-game, I mean. Not here on the forums. Players are looking for you in-game.

(And yes, I too believe more people should read the forums; the age-old dilemma of gaming websites. But the truth is, 75% of your players will NEVER come to the website. They get their info from gChat.)

It's only in the past few days that you were named as GL, and in your defense, I've seen you log into the game since then. So thank you for that. But where are the other Officers? I don't see them much at all.

What major changes?

Our Officers span multiple time zones and continents. They may simply not play the game at the same time as you or even the same days as you. This is not something for which to fault them. Running this guild is a hobby for them, something fun for them to do in their spare time and requiring them to be in-game during certain times or amounts of times is simply not feasible.

Actually, we have rather good website usage across all of our sites among our membership. Our sites aren't just a guild site, but rather a community portal where they can interact with other like-minded people and that has attracted many people to use our sites more frequently.

Quote by Jedilicious

So what happens is, in the lack of Officers in-game, when questions arise, or problems arise (which has happened) the helpful non-Officers among us try to direct people to the forums. They come here, then come back in-game and say they a) couldn't find any info related to their question or b) couldn't figure out who the Officers are (who, in all fairness, were only just announced on the forums a few days ago as well).

This creates further frustration in-game. Not just for the players, but for those of us who are trying to be helpful. That's why I started the other discussion topic asking who the officers are, so we at last know who to direct people to when they get here.

My own frustration results from having to start topics to ply you guys for information that really should already have been readily available somewhere on the site.

If members have questions or can't find information, that's exactly why we have this resource. It's for asking the questions that you don't know the answer to. We have the contact form to send us an email, the forums, private messages and in-game mail. You aren't prying information from us. We have no idea what information to give you unless you ask.

The Officers weren't just announced. Every time I've promoted a new officer(s), I make a matching post congratulating them in the Council Chambers, such as this or this. We'll be adding an Officer's page to the Welcome Center shortly.

Quote by Jedilicious

That's where my concerns are rooted for this 2nd off-shoot guild; It seems you're having trouble keeping up with the two you already have (or at least the Republic one)... and now you're adding a 3rd?

Perhaps I and my frustrations should go. :unsure:

We aren't having trouble keeping up with either guild. We have a great set of officers. Zepari was an officer in Stonewall Fleet for over a year and half on top of being a Fleet Captain and a very early member. Halish has been a major part of our community for several years, including being a Fleet Captain in Stonewall Fleet. DakonKor has helped our community very much in the relatively short time that he's been an officer. As well, I am helping KoS and LoS as much as I possibly can. The leadership team in Knights and Lords of Stonewall is perfectly capable of handling any issues that we come across. I have complete faith in them.

Quote by Jedilicious

It's only in the past few days that you were named as GL, and in your defense, I've seen you log into the game since then. So thank you for that. But where are the other Officers? I don't see them much at all.

So what happens is, in the lack of Officers in-game, when questions arise, or problems arise (which has happened) the helpful non-Officers among us try to direct people to the forums. They come here, then come back in-game and say they a) couldn't find any info related to their question or b) couldn't figure out who the Officers are (who, in all fairness, were only just announced on the forums a few days ago as well).

Quote by Jedilicious

And yes, before everyone jumps on me, I understand real life schedules, and I understand I can't expect an Officer in game 24/7. But the past few days I've been playing the game 8-hours straight (work has been light), and not seen one Officer log in... aside from Zepari and Taelyn for today's 'announcement.'

Just making the point that I was online yesterday night, while you were also online, and I always say hello when I log into a game.

Well it's clear that people are unhappy, and I do see valid complaints. What I'm not seeing (or seeing vary few of) are solutions? What our your solutions to these issues. What do you want to see?

I've expressed my concerns in guild chat and vent and I shall reiterate them here for the purpose of continuity...

First of all, I want to dispel the notion that I am impatient. The launch of this much-anticipated game was nothing new... My question is, with so much run-up time before the launch of the game, why were officer/recruitment issues not first ironed out? Why was nothing communicated clearly up until these couple weeks?

In the course of my play time since launch, both days and nights, at various hours of the day, I have seen officers log in and out, spend a few hours in-game, log out, with nary a whisper... Honestly, aside from Doogie, no one seemed to take the lead or have any interest in handling the business of the guild (ie. invites, conflict within/outside the guild).

It came to a point where I was frustrated with the lack of clear direction and stepped up to offer to at least help out with invites simply out of necessity due to the sheer number of hours I am afforded to play this game, and am able to provide this minor assistance... I know I'm not alone in this, and I acknowledge other Lieutenants' efforts when the task fell to them as well...

I guess, that's the main issue I have... It's not so much WHY decisions have been made but rather, HOW they're being made...

Clear lines of communication and membership buy-in are key to any well run organization... To say that members have a say and "feel included" but not have any say in the guild they have invested so much time in is the beginnings of a PR nightmare... Especially in a large guild such as ours...

I've been an officer in a semi-large guild and I'm familiar with how things are run. I can tell you, it is a thankless, unenviable task, so consider what I've said as the most constructive of criticisms coming from someone who's been there, and is familiar with the burden of leadership...

As a case in point, there were times where the officers and GL in my previous guild took the time out on a raid night to get everyone together to announce important subjects, like changing our loot system. Questions were asked and answered, considerations were made, and suggestions deliberated before any final decision was made...

I'm a huge fan of adopting a consultative approach to leadership decisions but using this relatively minor issue as an example (and we haven't even started raiding yet), makes me even more troubled... And it takes a lot for me to feel the need to speak up on something...

I've pretty much gone well above and beyond my duty as a "regular" member - accepting invites, helping people out, answering questions, taking time out to speak to adversarial people, and so on with hardly any guidance or direction from the top brass... All in the past month of the game...

With as much in-game time I've invested in the guild, including missing out on parts of the wonderfully immersive story, perhaps it was presumptuous of me to assume I would even be asked for my opinion? Even with an issue that would affect the guild I've invested much of my in-game time so far to hopefully build.

- Josh (Daryyn)

Quote by NicholasJohn16

Quote by Justjon

Future Suggestions:
Twitter

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Email list

• Ability to communicate quick announcements
• Usually have a noreply email option so that members can still be directed to the threads in order to get all the concerns in one place

Thank you for posting this Jon! I might add that it's not necessary to check the forums on a daily basis, but every other day or so may be beneficial. Though checking daily is awesome! If you're subscribed to the Council Chambers, then you should receive all important communications.

We regularly send out newsletters when we have important guild or community wide announcements, but we try to keep them sparse, not to spam people's inboxes. A good example of this is the monthly Stonewall Times which we send to all community members. None of our email address are 'no-reply', all of them redirect to our personnel account so if need be, we can answer any questions or concerns sent to us. If someone sends us an email and its a no-reply, we see that as a missed opportunity for communication.

We have a Facebook and Twitter page for Stonewall Fleet and will be creating one for Knights of Stonewall shortly.

Don't forget google+

I know a lot of people are taken back by changes happening. We are in a new game and a new guild changes are going to need to be made quick a lot of times (at the beginning) as well as situations occur.

As far as tonight goes I didn't really feel ambushed. I was directing people to the forums to express their concerns and see the really detailed explanations as to why these changes were being made and for some reason had half of the people take the advice the other half demand a presence now to tell them why.

We will over time have a stronger officer presence in the guild but even when we do it is not fair to anyone to have to sit in game all day and repeat information over and over in order to inform players. I strongly urge people to get in a routine to check the forums even if it is just to skim them as it will make communication in the long run better. I really love this guild and will stick around in order to see it through. This is just a rough period which all organizations have especially ones that grow so fast. So please just be patient and expect the unexpected as of right now as nothing is truly set in stone as the current and future way to handle things except for "Making this a safe and fun place to play your favorite game!"

Much love,

Jon

Quote by bluewraeth

I would urge continued patience as the officer corps works out their communication channels and organization, and just enjoy the game with your fellows.

I've said this very thing to a few on vent. I've known people in Stonewall for quite a while and know that they care about the guild and want to do the right thing. There are going to be bumps and things will not be perfect. But, as blue said, this is a game that is meant to be enjoyed.

Quote by Justjon

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• Most cell phones/PDA devices can access them
• Quick and easy access to important info summarized

Email list

• Ability to communicate quick announcements
• Usually have a noreply email option so that members can still be directed to the threads in order to get all the concerns in one place

Thank you for posting this Jon! I might add that it's not necessary to check the forums on a daily basis, but every other day or so may be beneficial. Though checking daily is awesome! If you're subscribed to the Council Chambers, then you should receive all important communications.

We regularly send out newsletters when we have important guild or community wide announcements, but we try to keep them sparse, not to spam people's inboxes. A good example of this is the monthly Stonewall Times which we send to all community members. None of our email address are 'no-reply', all of them redirect to our personnel account so if need be, we can answer any questions or concerns sent to us. If someone sends us an email and its a no-reply, we see that as a missed opportunity for communication.

We have a Facebook and Twitter page for Stonewall Fleet and will be creating one for Knights of Stonewall shortly.

Who doesn't like a healthy debate.

I think one thing to keep in mind through the course of the rapid growth of the swtor guild is to suggest having level-set expectations for what is in essence a voluntary organization for not only like minded swtor players, but for larger population of LGBT gamers.

When you look around and see the organization and design of the website alone I think everyone can agree a lot of effort has been put in by what is again in essence a voluntary organization.

As many have pointed out on both sides of the equation, the game is only a month old; roughly. Take some time and enjoy the content and set your expectations accordingly for a volunteer group working with the dynamics of a new game and new guild implementation not seen before in other MMOs.

To provide a real world example I have not experienced or managed a product launch, application implementation, or other projects go from launch to implementation in 30 days without a lot of wrinkles and gotchas. And this type of work is by paid professionals that can devote themselves 8-10 hours a day.

If anyone feels the need to leave the guild, than I will tip my hat and say good luck, but I would urge continued patience as the officer corps works out their communication channels and organization, and just enjoy the game with your fellows.

Cheers!

Quote by Zepari

Hi Jedilicious...

Hi there. Thanks for the reply.

Quote by Zepari

I was hoping to have an answer for all the suggestions that have been posted and talked about in guild chat before I posted a full update in the Announcements forum. However, I'll answer all your questions relating to the Alt guild and chat channels here first. Oh and the thread I was talking about in guild chat earlier where I said we would be splitting the guild is here:
http://www.knightsofstonewall.com/forums/cantina/37831-chat-channels

I don't think anyone expects you to have all the answers to all the suggestions. Just having an Announcement about the details (before a public statement in-game) would have been helpful.

Incidentally, in the thread you reference above there's an assumption by a member in that thread (the first post) that the guild will have to have some kind of split. There's no confirmation, certainly no discussion, about the split. In fact the split really isn't his question; it's how to use custom chat channels.

I realize that there can't be input from all members on all decisions. And I understand too that this decision had to be made quickly. I guess I'm less concerned with the decision itself, but in the process, and methods of communication, that followed.

The problem I had today was when you announced the split in gchat you explicitly told members (who were surprised by and questioning that decision) that there had been an open discussion on the forums and that no one had complained - thus you had made the decision you did. When a few of us came to the forums to see this public discussion, there was not one to be found.

Thus my feeling of a bait-and-switch... that we were told one thing in-game to quiet any discussion/questions that did not end up being true when we got to the forums.

There wasn't even an announcement on the forums about the split. Thus I created this topic asking what was going on.

Even tonight, Justjon was the only 'Captain' in-game doing invites. One of the other members asked about the guild split and a discussion ensued... and there are no Officers around to field questions or discuss what's going on with the guild. Poor Jon got ambushed, and I feel bad for him.

The game is 3 weeks old. Major changes are happening with the guild. Where are you guys? In-game, I mean. Not here on the forums. Players are looking for you in-game.

(And yes, I too believe more people should read the forums; the age-old dilemma of gaming websites. But the truth is, 75% of your players will NEVER come to the website. They get their info from gChat.)

It's only in the past few days that you were named as GL, and in your defense, I've seen you log into the game since then. So thank you for that. But where are the other Officers? I don't see them much at all.

So what happens is, in the lack of Officers in-game, when questions arise, or problems arise (which has happened) the helpful non-Officers among us try to direct people to the forums. They come here, then come back in-game and say they a) couldn't find any info related to their question or b) couldn't figure out who the Officers are (who, in all fairness, were only just announced on the forums a few days ago as well).

This creates further frustration in-game. Not just for the players, but for those of us who are trying to be helpful. That's why I started the other discussion topic asking who the officers are, so we at last know who to direct people to when they get here.

My own frustration results from having to start topics to ply you guys for information that really should already have been readily available somewhere on the site.

Quote by Zepari

1) The guild is not struggling. We have a great group of people here who regularly go out of their way to help each other... We currently have 15 Captains with multiple characters who are in place to help with invites and we still have a lot of Lieutenants as well with invite ability.

I just had an epiphany... I guess I'm the one struggling here.

The perception (and I know I'm not the only one) is that the leadership is not present in the game. Granted, I'm really only playing Republic side, but from the sounds of it, that's where most of your members are too (if you're having to split Republic into 2 guilds already).

Doogiegood has already departed out of frustration, and in all honesty I actually thought HE was guild leader up until a few days ago. He was in-game a lot, he was present to answer questions, he handled situations with grace and ease, and he was helpful. With him gone... no one seems to have taken over those roles.

And yes, before everyone jumps on me, I understand real life schedules, and I understand I can't expect an Officer in game 24/7. But the past few days I've been playing the game 8-hours straight (work has been light), and not seen one Officer log in... aside from Zepari and Taelyn for today's 'announcement.'

That's where my concerns are rooted for this 2nd off-shoot guild; It seems you're having trouble keeping up with the two you already have (or at least the Republic one)... and now you're adding a 3rd?

Perhaps I and my frustrations should go. :unsure:

After a discussion with some members tonight about communication of changes I thought I would make this thread in attempts to help people be better informed as well as give suggestions for the future on ways we can keep people better informed.

As far as in game there really isn't much other than welcome messages to tell people and that is limited to a very small character limit. Also this method does not allow you to communicate your concerns about it.

Currently there are a lot of limitations UI wise that many other MMO's do not have. We do not have the benefit of addons or integrating IRC so a bit of leg work is needed in order to obtain and give information. Also keep in mind that currently there is a lot of changes being made in order get things better organized.

What members can do:

Check the forums on a daily basis

• There are many things that get posted here from guides to finding people to group with.
• All updates are normally given here as it is the best way to inform 2 guilds(currently) with members all over the world

Subscribe to the Council Chamber Thread

• Any important announcements pertaining to either Knights of Stonewall or Lords of Stonewall are posted there
• Most topics are left open so if you have concerns you can express them and have an Officer answer them when they can. (This also helps others out with the same questions)
• You will receive an email upon any new post made there

Note: In order to subscribe to the thread you must open the Council Chamber Thread. Locate the Subscribe button at the top of the thread and select that.




Future Suggestions:

Twitter

• Most cell phones/PDA devices can access them
• Quick and easy access to important info summarized

Email list

• Ability to communicate quick announcements
• Usually have a noreply email option so that members can still be directed to the threads in order to get all the concerns in one place

I would also add that our STO fleet is split in two, it dose work and vary well.

Hi Jedilicious, I'm Zepari, the "Guild Leader" whose name you can't remember, lol. Pleased to meet you. You or anyone else can, as always, contact me via PM on this site, or directly to my email address: Zepari@live.co.uk

I was hoping to have an answer for all the suggestions that have been posted and talked about in guild chat before I posted a full update in the Announcements forum. However, I'll answer all your questions relating to the Alt guild and chat channels here first. Oh and the thread I was talking about in guild chat earlier where I said we would be splitting the guild is here:
http://www.knightsofstonewall.com/forums/cantina/37831-chat-channels

DakonKor's post has all the information about why we chose this method of guild management, so I'll just add to that by answering your well thought out points and try not to repeat what he has already explained.

1) The guild is not struggling. We have a great group of people here who regularly go out of their way to help each other. The first few weeks after launch we difficult with the restrictions we had on the Republic side, but thanks to Doogiegood, Aldente, the other officers and all the Lieutenants, we managed. Thank you to you all! We currently have 15 Captains with multiple characters who are in place to help with invites and we still have a lot of Lieutenants aswell with invite ability. If anyone does have a problem and can't get invited after a few hours, then they should let me know and I will arrange to invite them at their convenience.

2) I am very aware of the drawbacks of having to split the guild by class, especially with the guild achievements. However we did consider all the alternatives as DakonKor said, including the ones mentioned in this thread. We didn't have time to wait for a guild wide survey as we were fast approaching the guild limit and we don't want to have to turn anyone away.
We don't want to impose any draconian entrance requirements that limit who can join as that goes against the Stonewall ethos of non-discrimination. The overflow idea of having anyone who joins from now on put into a different guild was also discounted as we had done that with STO and found that we were segregating the real life members rather than just their characters.
We couldn't introduce a minimum activity requirement of two months or even one month as all the characters are less than a month old.
The two choices we were left with were to level band the guilds so that when a member reached a high level they would be entitled to join an "elite" character guild, or the current choice. We chose the class banding because level banding would only postpone the problem until we had too many high level characters to fit in one guild and then we would face this problem all over again.
Despite the drawbacks, class banding seemed the best decision as it was the most permanent and most energy economical in the long term. Also when guild banks become available, the items placed there will be most useful to characters of the same class.

We will of course be reviewing this decision regularly with the input of all the members as the guild grows and new problems emerge.

3) The Stonewall chat channel was never just for invites. As in STO it is a vital communication tool and intended for general use or the whole Stonewall community, no-matter which ingame guild they are in, to socialise. Again as with STO the plan was to disable guild chat once we had need for an Alt guild and use the Stonewall channel only. However I'd like to see if keeping the guild chat available for discussions relating to specific classes is possible without dividing the social aspect of the game.

4) The need for an Alt guild is not about having space for new members. We do not have enough room for the alts of all our current members and we don't see the need to make members pick which character they want to play most and only allowing that one to interact with the rest of us. The splitting of the guilds is to allow us to include all characters, not invite new members, that is done via this website.

I hope I've answered any outstanding questions and added to the other officer's explanations.

We are planning to start holding informal guild wide meetings on a regular basis to get the input and opinions of all the members and, as always, myself and all the officers (current and future) are willing to chat to anyone at anytime about your concerns.

Zepari

Quote by intristin

Quote by Varel

Quote by intristin

As far as the name, Soldiers of Stonewall, it's OK, I don't see how a smuggler can be considered a soldier however. With that said, I can't think of a word that would cover both classes either so I guess that's fine. :P

They are called Soliders of Fortune for a reason. Smugglers will take advantage of an opening to make sure they can continue to make a profit and will defend their advantages with a passion.

I didn't even think about it that way but your right, and I stand corrected. B)

It's all good in the hood! :-)

Quote by Sidanis

Not everyone reads the forums and those that don't might find themselves logging in and guildless, wondering what happened.

We are going to do everything in our power to keep this from happening. Once we have the Officers and Captains in place to handle this task, we will be handling this with people as they are logged into the game.

A worst case scenario would be we try sending a couple of in-game emails to try and arrange a time to help someone get their characters aligned.

We are not going to go on a /gkick rampage.

Once we have the Leadership in place, the realignment for any one character who is logged in shouldn't take any longer than a few seconds.

We don't have a deadline for when we get everyone aligned, it will be a process that happens as the timing works for everyone. That said, the more we can get realigned quickly, the better, so any cooperation and help you can all provide will be greatly appreciated. This minimizes any perception of favoritism of one guild over another. We are still Stonewall, we are just finding a logical and equitable way to distribute our membership.

Like I said I understand the need and I'm okay with whatever you guys decide, it's also good to know that moving between guilds will be voluntary. (if I understand it correctly)

I just hope folks understand that no one is trying to create any drama here but trying bring up what their issues are, for the care they might have to the guild.

Quote by intristin

As far as the name, Soldiers of Stonewall, it's OK, I don't see how a smuggler can be considered a soldier however. With that said, I can't think of a word that would cover both classes either so I guess that's fine. :P

They are called Soliders of Fortune for a reason. Smugglers will take advantage of an opening to make sure they can continue to make a profit and will defend their advantages with a passion.

On a more serious note:
I think we all need to take a deep breath here and realize that the need for a guild split is actually a good thing. We have people who WANT to be members of Stonewall, no matter what the form. The game hasn't even been out for a month so I think it's a little too quick to call for people to be cleared out of the guild. I'm sure as time passes guild cleaning will happen but less than a month after launch isn't the time to start. We just finished the holiday season and people will start to get back into their usual routines. We may see an increase in the number of characters that are leveling up.

This will be awkward at first but guild growth normally is. As Dakon stated before (I am paraphrasing here) we can't plan the guild around what-ifs and maybes. We have to work with the way the game is now. As to people being moved out of Knights, I highly doubt that the officers are going to go on a /gkick rampage. I'm sure it will be more along the lines of asking members if they feel comfortable to move their toons into the correct guild, and encouraging new members to apply to the "proper" guild.

We just have to keep in mind that things will work out. :-) until then the next round of shots off the shot boys are on me!

I did say that the officers have discussed this and we have made a decision for what we believe is the best set up for our guild. In future we can always improve and smooth out the bumps.

Quote by Jedilicious

1) The guild is already struggling to manage two guilds in-game. Work out the hiccups and bumps first, get your Officers and Captains lined up, work the bugs out of the invite process... before adding more work. Simple economy of energy: keep it simple.

We don't have the luxury of waiting, we are within touching distance of the cap. If people are trying to get their friends or alts invited to the guild and we can't accommodate them because we were too busy fiddling with our officer set up, I'm pretty sure everyone can agree it wouldn't be a great situation.

Quote by Jedilicious

2) Separating by classes: Often times quests and missions require multiple classes for assistance. The simple fact that enough of one class type (even Jedi tanks/healers/dps) may not be available at the same time means you'll be needing other classes to help. The separation of classes will result in more chatter in the Stonewall custom chat channel.*

Is more chatter in the Stonewall Custom chat channel a bad thing? To be honest, I don't imagine people will talk any more. People ask in the guild chat for groups much more often than they search through the guild lists. I think you're trying to pull problems out of the air with this one.

Quote by Jedilicious

3) Future guild achievement systems will most likely require an assortment of classes in one guild.

We can't be making decisions based on game systems we don't know anything about or if they are coming at all. For all we know in a few patches Bioware will up the character limit of the guild and we can all jump back into the pile together.

We are doing what we believe to be the best action for the guild. In future if the situation changes we can re-address.

Quote by Jedilicious

4) *The Stonewall chat channel ideally should only be used for inviting new members. New members enter that channel and if it's full of cross-guild chatter, group invite requests, Flashpoint assistance chatter, the new members are going to get missed... or flustered, or overwhelmed. As it is now I have gChat and Stonewall channel in one tab and it's hard to keep up with what's being said in both channels. You'll scare off potential new members if they sit in that channel and can't get assistance through all the chatter. If you want a cross-guild chat channel, make a new one and keep all chatter in there... but don't jeopardize your invite channel.

I understand your concern that we may miss invites but I don't believe it will be an issue. We ran our Star Trek Online guild with one chat room and missing invites due to too much chatter wasn't a massive problem.

I think our guild has some of the best members I have ever known and I have absolutely faith in their willingness to help any new members trying to get an invite. I have this faith because I have seen them doing it. They are wonderful.

Quote by Jedilicious

5) In the GChat discussion an officer stated (paraphrasing) 'this change is needed to allow room for new members to join.' My suggestion: Don't sacrifice providing quality of service to your existing members just to lure in more new members. Take care of what you've got, build on it and make it better, then worry about getting new members in.

This is never going to be the way we operate. We don't turn people away at the door when they haven't done anything wrong.

Our guild is a place for anybody who wants to play SWTOR in a friendly environment and we (officers and members) will provide an excellent "quality of service" weather have 500 members or 10000 members.

The day we close our doors to new members for fear of neglecting the old is the day we should close down the guild all together. We are here for everybody.

Quote by Jedilicious

A) Thin the ranks of the current guild. Many of us made multiple start up toons, but are only now leveling one or two. Ask those who created (and guilded) lower level toons - that they may never play again - to voluntarily remove those toons to help keep the rosters clean.

SWTOR isn't like any other MMO. It's entirely story based and people may (and probably will) want to create their own little army of alternative characters, so they can get the most out of the game they are paying for.

As long as there is another way, we won't be kicking out peoples low level characters only to invite them again once they go back. This game is going to be altoholic heavy and we have to be prepared for that.

Quote by Jedilicious

B) Institute a minimum level requirement for new members and new invites... say lvl 10?. It's easy to get a toon to lvl 10 and getting that far generally implies it's a character you care enough about to keep playing. This is VERY common in other MMO guilds and this one step alone will help minimize the sheer volume of low level toons that no one ever plays after first creating... and could have avoided the current crowding problem you're experiencing.

I don't want people to spend the first 10 levels of their characters alone, when they should be spreading their excitement and enjoyment with their guild mates.

They could be leveling up their brand new character right next to a guild friend and never know because we have excluded them both.

We don't do things how lots of other guilds do them. We do things the way we feel is best for our guild.

Quote by Jedilicious

C) If you absolutely need to make a second guild, don't make it class-specific. Simply lock Knights of Stonewall to new invites. Put new members and alts into Soldiers of Stonewall and let that build up/balance out.

The officers spent a lot time discussing this and we decided on a class specific system. To discuss everything again would only mean we end up at the same decision.

Every 2 months prune the rosters of toons that haven't logged in in the past two months (they can always ask for invites again later). To keep the two guilds balanced, simply lock one to invites until the membership grows ahead of the other... then lock that guild and reopen the one previously locked.

We probably will get into a system of removing characters from the guild when they have reached a certain amount of time without being played. But we are only 3 weeks into the games life so this doesn't need to be decided right now and doesn't effect the current situation.

Quote by Jedilicious

D) Finally, and perhaps most disturbing to me... Someone specifically asked about this decision to split when it was announced in gchat and he was told by the Guild Leader that there was a discussion topic on the forums... and that 'since no one had complained about it on the forums that the decision had been made to split the guilds.' The member specifically stated that he felt this was a decision that members should be allowed to weigh in on. He was told by the Guild Leader that members HAD been given an opportunity to weigh in on it.

However such an opportunity was not provided to the membership. That's very different from an officer discussion where the decision was made.

In an ideal world we'd be able to discuss every major decision on a guild-wide basis but we have ran out of space and time. We have members from all of the globe and a lot of them have different work and play schedules.

Trying to get a guild wide discussion going and one that ends with some sort of conclusion and doesn't continue forever (which with lots of different views tends to happen).

It just wasn't feasible for this discussion.

Quote by Jedilicious

I haven't been in the guild long, and I'm sorry that I've apparently become a bit of a lightning rod by expressing my opinions, however I feel that I've walked into a bit of a bait-and-switch over here. The lack of communication, and the open misdirection at times, sadly has me feeling like this guild isn't really about the members at all.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not yet seen much to suggest otherwise.

I don't know where you get this "lack of communication" from but it's completely false. We're not a game development company hiding behind the walls of a office building. We're here on the forums, we are playing the games you are playing. We have a private message system built into the guild website.

There is many different ways you can discuss your concerns with an officer. I think we have been very open and honest about some of the problems we have faced but I'm not going to allow anybody to imply they are worse than they are.

The guild progressing nicely and in the next few weeks the officership will be expanded and we can start moving forward together.

I completely understand the need to create a new guild due to current limitations within the game.

Coming from WoW where I was part of Taint on the Horde side and La Familia on the Alliance the amount of subguilds was mind boggling.

What was done on the Alliance side if I remember correctly (I'm sure Daddy might correct me on this) is that Alts are placed on a separate guild, pruning is done on the main guild (La Familia) every 90 days to remove players that don't play anymore and there's a second guild that was created just to accommodate new players when the main guild got full.

It actually might be easier to just start inviting new folks into a new guild than "kicking" anyone that isn't a Jedi from Knights and having them being re-invited into Soldiers.

Not everyone reads the forums and those that don't might find themselves logging in and guildless, wondering what happened.

Of course whatever you kind folks decide is fine, I'm also sure that a new chat channel will be created for invites only or guild chat.

Quote by Elikal

I see. Thanks a ton already.

A friend told me 90% of his software from XP did NOT work on Windows 7 anymore, even with "compatibility mode". I know this mode never worked under XP for most of my old Windows 95, back when I changed to XP, so I am kinda distrustful to this mode anyway.


EDIT: Also, which card is better: the NVidia GeForce GT520 I see in one of the new models, or my "old" NVidia GeForce GTX460?

Your old card is actually better and just to reiterate what other fellow guildies have said most of Windows XP applications work on Windows 7 out of the box, only very specific, usually corporate applications might not work. (old versions of SAP I think, etc...)