Pope to allow Gay Priests!

Joseph Baker

Jerran

Re: Pope to allow Gay Priests!

July 30 2013
I really don't see this as anything different from the love the sinner but hate the sin stance that other churches have taken. Still bigotry based on a two thousand year old book of fables that have been translated and retranslated for centuries.
2 people liked this
Adrien Camus Ratty

Paladia

Re: Pope to allow Gay Priests!

July 30 2013
Yeah, this is the same stuff I was told in my Catholic high school... you can be gay and that's fine, as long as you remain single and celibate. I was also told that cisgender heterosexual married couples who use birth control are bad because they aren't being 'fully open about their sexuality.'

Luckily, I was logical enough to say 'screw that' and became an atheist. All the fun people were atheist, Pagan, or Jewish anyway.

Also, this is my alma mater. A BRILLIANT school all around.
Unknown Person liked this
Aztroz

betazoidhalf

Re: Pope to allow Gay Priests!

July 30 2013
Quote by Paladia
Luckily, I was logical enough to say 'screw that' and became an atheist. All the fun people were atheist, Pagan, or Jewish anyway.


Two things...
  1. A very logical use of the phrase "screw that". Nice!
  2. Since I'm pagan, does that imply that I'm a fun person? Lies and fabrications!
Jwcisneros

Lorenius

Re: Pope to allow Gay Priests!

July 30 2013
*puts on academic hat*

There is an awful lot to unpack here. But before I get to it, I must say something. This event is decidedly not the same old "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing. If we believe that, we are only doing our own work on equality a grave disservice.

Pope Francis has deviated from his two papal predecessors in his approach to the papacy. Yes, some of it would be thought of ahead of time, but this pope is something different.

1. His approach is pastoral, not doctrinal.

2. He is the first moderate to hold the papacy in the post-modern era.

In keeping with his beliefs he has...made his own advisors, and those favored by Benedict very uncomfortable. In the space of a few short months Francis has:

1. Shown greater openness to including women a greater role of the religious. Do not mistake this as a sign that he will advocate openly the ordination of women into the greater priesthood, but it represents a major softening of the papacy toward the issue of women religious.

2. He has spoken with greater candor than both of his predecessors. His predecessor cannot be comfortable with the degree of candor Francis has shown. While Francis is not directly critical of Benedict, his actions and comments repudiate the "top down" magisterial rule of Benedict, his comments also sharply deviate from Benedict's policies.

3. He has acknowledged that there are gay priests (something we knew all along) but he has shown no sign of being inclined to defrock them or insult them.

4. Francis has acknowledged that the Church bears a responsibility to it's LGBT flock without using the "intrinsically disordered" argument. He has made it clear the Church must minister to everyone with compassion and dignity. This is where he deviates from his three predecessors sharply.

The Church never moves quickly on anything, but these actions indicate an urgency that the Church has been reluctant to acknowledge. Do not expect the Roman Catholic Church to bless same-gender unions overnight, that is completely unrealistic. But these changes heralded by Francis are unprecedented in the post-modern era...even if they are incremental in nature.

We can analyze these changes thusly:

A. Francis realizes the urgency of the Church's problems from the Pedophilia scandals to the IOR scandal to the "gay lobby" in the Vatican. To even acknowledge the gravity of these issues is not in keeping with the character of his predecessors. The "papal infallibility" doctrine is on the way out thanks to his ascension and Benedict's acknowledgement of his fallibility (frailty) and resigning.

B. Francis makes arch-conservative Catholics squirm. Washing the feet of the poor and including two women in that foot-washing during Easter runs against centuries of Catholic tradition. This action is a statement designed for his priests to see. Speaking warmly about his gay brother priests is not a move designed to enamor you of your conservative clergy who have spent a lifetime demonizing LGBTs in public, the public record is rife with examples of such scabrous remarks.

This analysis is not designed to let the Church off the hook for its behavior, Dolan and a number of the US (Arch)Bishops owe more than an apology to our community. Francis's remarks signal a softening of a hardline Church stance and his manner indicates that his idea of a Magisterium is not aloof, unfeeling, and wholly doctrinal in it's approach. Again, the Church is not going institute change at a million miles per hour or start marrying us overnight. Francis is moving carefully towards the middle of the road and letting his remarks signal slow and measured change.

*academic hat off*

~JC

Caveat lector: I am a pagan that was raised Roman Catholic.
3 people liked this
Edited July 30 2013 by Lorenius
Adrien Camus Ratty

Paladia

Re: Pope to allow Gay Priests!

July 30 2013
Thank you, Lorenius, for that brilliant post. I never 'got' that kind of stuff but now I am at least somewhat prepared for when my insanely religious Catholic brother comes home in a few days;)
Unknown Person liked this
Jwcisneros

Lorenius

Re: Pope to allow Gay Priests!

July 31 2013
If you have any questions about insanely religious Catholics, I am the one to ask ;)

After all I study this stuff.

~Jeff Cisneros
PhD Candidate - Indiana University - Bloomington
"The Odyssey begins on August 19th!