The Salvation Army

Well, it's that time of year, the bell ringers are out in force, and, I feel that not enough people know they are very anti-gay, so, if you weren't aware of it, apologies, but please find somewhere else to give to, maybe somewhere that is pro-gay rights?
if you were aware of it already, maybe take this as a reminder to let others know? if people stop giving money for kids to get coats and the money gets used to help push for anti-gay laws, maybe things will get easier for us? I dunno, I'm not good at this, but I feel it's a responsibility we all share in some way, at least until we are truly equal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zinnia-jones/the-salvation-armys-histo_b_4422938.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/salvationarmy.asp

http://www.queerty.com/dont-fall-for-the-salvation-armys-pr-spin-theyre-still-super-antigay-20131209


if this is a topic that is unacceptable, maybe we should have a subforum or something for such topics? I don't think we can simply ignore them where we can gather safely.

I certainly wasn't aware of this so thank you for bringing it to my attention, although I don't really have the knowledge (other than the few articles you've linked) to say much about it.

It's perfectly acceptable to post topics such as this here, not just to inform but also to hopefully debate.

:)

The thing is, the Salvation Army is not a charity. It is a church. But the public gets confused, and the Salvation Army doesn't bother with clearing up the confusion.

This is something that bothered me greatly. Whenever I see a charity I am prone to dumping out whatever is rattling around in my pockets.

Now every time I go shopping I have to do that awkward pretending to be talking or oblivious thing. lol

But seriously, how sad it is when we have to look into every charity and investigate to make sure it actually goes to the people who need it.

I remember my dealings with the Salvation Army when they came to My work and I was helping them every year with their shopping and their donations and it was always the same three old ladies that came in. They never seemed like they showed any form of negative karma my way. I'm surprised tho to see these links

it's not all the members, it's never the entirety, and that's the problem, and the reason we need to point it out, because people don't know where it is rotten when they've only dealt with the nice portion.

Quote by Frozenlily

I remember my dealings with the Salvation Army when they came to My work and I was helping them every year with their shopping and their donations and it was always the same three old ladies that came in. They never seemed like they showed any form of negative karma my way. I'm surprised tho to see these links

Just like with a lot of churches, there are good people in them... then there's the leadership.

I engage them. Talk to them. Tell them what the organization as a whole is doing.

Often, the bell-ringers themselves don't know. I've cost them at least one volunteer.

I'm personally very conflicted about this. I've felt a lot of pressure from my online friends circle to not donate to this organization, typically through re-shares of these exposé articles around the Christmas season. Definitely, the anti-gay stories that have surfaced on the net, along with allegations that some of their money is going to fund anti-gay politics has me very concerned.

On the other hand, my career has me dealing with victims of crime, sexually and physically abused people and those who are most in need in our communities, on a near daily basis. It's been my experience that in practice, the Salvation Army has always come through for these people time and time again, at their worst moments. I can't really go into specific detail, but some of the ways in which I know that they help people, goes above and beyond the services that many other organizations - government or otherwise- are willing or able to provide people. Anecdotally, I know that LGBT people haven't been excluded from their assistance, aside from those testimonials that we see surfacing on the net.

When my mom was young, she, her brother and my grandparents had barely enough money to survive from day to day. They were farmers, emigrated from Germany, just trying to get by. When Christmas time came around and my grandparents had nothing for my mom and uncle, my mom often recounts how it was the Salvation Army that stopped by with food and presents. That becomes a pretty big consideration when the testimonial comes from within your own family.

The question then becomes: who am I really hurting by choosing not to donate to this group? The balance that I've struck is to not exclusively donate to the Salvation Army, which is difficult, since they run the only donation centre and food bank in my small community and I have to drive hours to go elsewhere. I try to spread my donations around to hit up more than one charity, and hope that in so doing, that I've struck the right kind of balance.

What do you all think?

As it is late this will be a short and sweet reply Dave.

Ultimately the decision to donate, or not to donate rests in you and how it makes you feel. If you believe that the organisation effectively delivers what you expect of it in your area then I see no issue with you donating to one, irrespective of their 'antigay' views that seem to be cropping up of late.

Equally, how accurate they are is yet to be determined... you could potentially drag up similar situations for a cross section of other charities and organisations. The press, as I am sure you are aware, are very good at picking up and focusing on a negative image and running with it and capitalising at every opportunity.

In a different area the Salvation Army may well be a lot more homophobic and it may give you pause for thought, but in recap, if the area you live in they do what you feel is adequate, donate away :)

Does the good out weigh the bad?

I have never donated to the Salvation Army because I choose not to. It has nothing to do with the politic. My donations are seldom monetary but rather clothing and useful items that people need. Money seldom makes it to where it needs to go. Running a charity costs a considerable amount of cash. But Clothes, Towels, Blankets, things like that actually go a lot farther.

I've known about this for some time. Ellamin nailed it on the head here.

Quote by Voleron

On the other hand, my career has me dealing with victims of crime, sexually and physically abused people and those who are most in need in our communities, on a near daily basis.

When my mom was young, she, her brother and my grandparents had barely enough money to survive from day to day. They were farmers, emigrated from Germany, just trying to get by. When Christmas time came around and my grandparents had nothing for my mom and uncle, my mom often recounts how it was the Salvation Army that stopped by with food and presents. That becomes a pretty big consideration when the testimonial comes from within your own family.

You have an ability to create a paradigm shift. I used to not support the Salvation Army, but I will now . I agree with you full heartedly. I grew up in the community where some people didn't have indoor plumbing I seen the poor I've seen the tired struggling to get by. Sometimes you have to look beyond politics, beliefs to help somebody else

Quote by SaintPlazma

Quote by Voleron

On the other hand, my career has me dealing with victims of crime, sexually and physically abused people and those who are most in need in our communities, on a near daily basis.

When my mom was young, she, her brother and my grandparents had barely enough money to survive from day to day. They were farmers, emigrated from Germany, just trying to get by. When Christmas time came around and my grandparents had nothing for my mom and uncle, my mom often recounts how it was the Salvation Army that stopped by with food and presents. That becomes a pretty big consideration when the testimonial comes from within your own family.

You have an ability to create a paradigm shift. I used to not support the Salvation Army, but I will now . I agree with you full heartedly. I grew up in the community where some people didn't have indoor plumbing I seen the poor I've seen the tired struggling to get by. Sometimes you have to look beyond politics, beliefs to help somebody else

I'd much rather support a charity that does things of similar value and doesn't make a sermon or risk that your money will go to lobbying against basic equality and human rights a requirement of their help.

Quote by Princess-Hope

Quote by SaintPlazma

Quote by Voleron

On the other hand, my career has me dealing with victims of crime, sexually and physically abused people and those who are most in need in our communities, on a near daily basis.

When my mom was young, she, her brother and my grandparents had barely enough money to survive from day to day. They were farmers, emigrated from Germany, just trying to get by. When Christmas time came around and my grandparents had nothing for my mom and uncle, my mom often recounts how it was the Salvation Army that stopped by with food and presents. That becomes a pretty big consideration when the testimonial comes from within your own family.

You have an ability to create a paradigm shift. I used to not support the Salvation Army, but I will now . I agree with you full heartedly. I grew up in the community where some people didn't have indoor plumbing I seen the poor I've seen the tired struggling to get by. Sometimes you have to look beyond politics, beliefs to help somebody else

I'd much rather support a charity that does things of similar value and doesn't make a sermon or risk that your money will go to lobbying against basic equality and human rights a requirement of their help.

And so would I, to use trek, I feel like there is the "ends are the goal" section 31, and then there are the federation captains with the "but how you do it matters most" which fight it at times, even if it is something that may, in the immediate term, benefit us.

That's exactly how I see it, I dislike the salvation army but sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil. Until there someone else I have to help them. I work in the industry where people can't afford medications they need anyone willing to help is an ally. I help when I can, but my funds are limited.

Quote by SiranNataan

The thing is, the Salvation Army is not a charity. It is a church. But the public gets confused, and the Salvation Army doesn't bother with clearing up the confusion.

Wow. I always thought they were a charity. Wake up call for me :S

There is a simple compromise: if you live in an area where they are the only resource for charitable aid (and there are many of those areas), then by all means, support them with a clear conscious, because they are the ONLY charity for the destitute.

But if you live in an area (like me) with hundreds of alternatives, then skip them and donate to someone else whose politics are more palatable.

I would simply say that you should be sure such a gift would go to someone in need, and in our modern internet age, there are other pro-gay, pro-minority charities to give to that are not churches.

This is worth a bump for the season.

I used to work at an LGBT publication where the publisher was really big on this. He didn't write often enough but he'd always have a column in December on the Salvation Army.

There are lots of charities for the homeless out there that aren't homophobic (LA lgbt center and the Ali Forney Center in NYC, just for some examples). And even if the Salvation Army were totally OK with gay and trans people, I'd still have a problem with them attaching proselytizing to community service; listening to sermon should not be the price we attach to helping the homeless. They need food and shelter and health care and water and so many other things, not a Bible.

Anyway, the queer charities will never be allowed to put bell-ringers outside every supermarket in Nebraska, so it's worth us going out of our way to support them if we have the means.