Code of Conduct Revamp; Feedback requested

Hello All,

We've had our current code of conduct for pretty much forever and I believe it's no longer fit for purpose. I have, with the approval of the other community admins, been working on a simplified code of conduct that relies more on common-sense "general" rules than the broken down section-by-section of old.

I'd like to ask any of you that is willing to have a look at the below link and give constructive criticism.

http://fleet.stonewallgaming.net/code-wip-2014

Please feel free to speak your mind as we are very open to improvements in order to make our code of conduct work for us.

The current code of conduct can be found here:
http://fleet.stonewallgaming.net/welcome-center/operational-information/code-of-conduct

Accessing Stonewall from Knights (SWTOR) or Vanguard (GW2)?

When you click the above link you'll be taken to the Fleet (STO) version of the website and will have to re-login using the same login details you'd normally use.

This is only temporary while working on it. Once it's finished and approved the final version will be ported to the other sites and styled to match.

Thanks,

Halish

nice borders! :) but does it feel like it segregates between membership n command?

"Always uphold the same standard of behaviour that is expected of you."
Always treat you with the respect you deserve.
- these are implied anyway by virtue of being a member too?


i like that it's been simplified a lot and yeap, common sense rules!!

explanations seem reasonable;
perhaps link further to more complex processes (such as how we deal with disputes) separately
expand to refer to the 18+ in those specific zones?

The reason for the segregation was to try and reassure members that it's not one way traffic.

When a member breaks the rules someone in a leadership position will immediately point to the code of conduct to show them their mistake.

The leadership has to be held accountable as well and I wanted members to have some reference point that they can point to if they feel the leadership isn't living up to their responsibility.

I think it goes without saying that the leadership isn't exempt from the "member" part of the code of conduct.

It certainly isn't meant to segregate in a way that "elite-ifies" the leadership. I may have to rethink the layout.

Edit: Sorry cal, almost forgot to respond to the second part of your post.

Detailing the processes for disputes and guides on etiquette are covered in other parts of the welcome centre and more specifically the members handbook (a revamp of which is also on my to do list).

I could try and put some links and maybe some "hint" style boxes to explain things at a glance. Something to think about.

I rather appreciate your approach taking the form of a contractual understanding.

And moreover, the third point - that members wearing the Stonewall tags are standard bearers for the fleet at large - is a welcome and important addition.

Thumbs up emoji here.

I am just reviewing the Code of Conduct sections and i have noticed that

there are names of places that i haven't seen before or don't exist since transferring from Ventrilo to TeamSpeak "Quarks Bar, Quantum Cafe, Federation Fleet and Klingon Fleet".

If the Code of Conduct is a guide of sorts for the fleet to follow, then rephrasing sentences that have the intended effect as some people would view think that the Code of Conduct are a laughing matter.

I know this is nit picking of all things but it would be helpful to make things clear as well as straight forward for member to understand without confusion.

I like the WIP code of conduct it gives a straight forward approach of the intended behavior of members in the fleet whilst matching with the emojis as Ereiid has mentioned.

I wouldn't mind seeing a third bit as a general rule of thumb of all members in its own category referring to a more common sense and etiquette of behaviour when respecting those of different nationality, sexuality, gender, intelligence and so on. Maybe following the "K.I.S.S" method would be a good idea. (Keep it simple silly)

But in all i like the ways its going. Great work Halish.

Dax

Read this over folks, it takes merely a minute or two of your time!

I think it's simple and easy enough to understand. Looks good to me!

I'm still rolling the overall changes in my mind. I like the direction that it's going and may have more feedback later. But initially, there's some minor things.

we can not exclude the most vulnerable part of our community, that being under eighteens.

"that being under eighteens" I'm sure most understand the lines intent but it's a tad odd in word usage. I'd suggest ", those under eighteen."

Sometimes being in a leadership position can be trying but we will not allow this to effect our behaviour.

I believe that effect should be affect. Also, people in the UK spell it: behaviour?

Sometimes dealing with people from all of the world

Should this read "Sometimes dealing with people from all over the world"?

I like the new rules (along with the grammar changes that Kasper suggested) but I have to be nit picky and request one bit of clarification:

Never say, type or post material which isn't suitable for a young teenager to see or hear.

We believe that in a community (whose) main objective is to provide a safe place for (primarily LGBT) people to converse without threat of insults or harassment, we can not exclude the most vulnerable part of our community, (those) under eighteen.

As such we operate a strict PG-13 policy in all public areas of our network and all members must promise to respect that at all times.

Isn't that a little too subjective to not spell out a little bit better? Some of the jokes my teen cousins and I share would be totally inappropriate in other families. ;) But seriously, hear me out, because I actually have two good reasons:

1) The statement as written is asking admins to make a judgement call. Do you really want to field reports from an in-game grudge that someone muttered "f**k" under their breath in chat, and the hearer was offended?

In this type of situation, if you take no action and the rule's that vague, you as the admin become the bad-guy. Not your fault, though. Even Wikipedia is vague about what constitutes PG-13.

It seems it would be much easier on Admirals if the rules were to head it off in specific terms before-hand. Nothing too graphic, but enough to be pretty cut-and-dried so that Admirals responding to complaints can just cut-and-paste the rule without having to quibble.

2) Also, I find it a little worrisome that the statement seems to prioritize the identity of the victim over actually addressing inappropriate behavior.

A bully doesn't need to know if I'm a teen or not, or even that I was offended - they need only know that saying, posting, or typing about extreme violence, pornography, illegal drugs, threats to any person, or graphic sexual acts is inappropriate for our fleet.

-- I'm not saying we should have a wall of text like the official STO forums do, or even necessarily spell it out in multiple bullet-points like the old rules did, but something that addresses what can't be said in a concrete manner is a little more enforceable than "don't do it if it'd embarrass your grandma."

Other than that nit-pickiness, it looks great!

Hi,

I consider myself still kind of new, so I thought I'd chime in on this with a newbie perspective.

I like the simplification, but perhaps it's a little over simplified. Seeing only the WIP version would make me go to an admiral/cap'n and ask what the *real rules* are ("So, what'll get me banned?"). However, I'm a little more outgoing than some others might be and have no problem going up to fleet leadership.

I think the WIP is a good preface or summary (or TL;DR version), but there should be the option to keep reading for specifics.

Actually, the older one doesn't really have cut-and-dried rules.) I think it would be nice if you had what's there and a little list like (..4. don't !$/%# swear! 5. keep it friendly for a 12-year old (ie we're here to game; no one wants to hear about your unspeakable extracurriculars.) Obviously not phrased as jokingly, but a appendix of don'ts might be a nice add-in. Maybe the admin can get together and hash out that list.

I would also want to tweak the formatting and make it not italicized. Keep the indent, but its not like the whole thing is too long to read otherwise.

Quote by denrist

Hi,

I consider myself still kind of new, so I thought I'd chime in on this with a newbie perspective.

I like the simplification, but perhaps it's a little over simplified. Seeing only the WIP version would make me go to an admiral/cap'n and ask what the *real rules* are ("So, what'll get me banned?"). However, I'm a little more outgoing than some others might be and have no problem going up to fleet leadership.

I think the WIP is a good preface or summary (or TL;DR version), but there should be the option to keep reading for specifics.

Actually, the older one doesn't really have cut-and-dried rules.) I think it would be nice if you had what's there and a little list like (..4. don't !$/%# swear! 5. keep it friendly for a 12-year old (ie we're here to game; no one wants to hear about your unspeakable extracurriculars.) Obviously not phrased as jokingly, but a appendix of don'ts might be a nice add-in. Maybe the admin can get together and hash out that list.

I would also want to tweak the formatting and make it not italicized. Keep the indent, but its not like the whole thing is too long to read otherwise.

Excellent points. Did the admins meet before this post went out? I know Halish was approved to work it but what's the aim, more loose and casual or more defined yet casual rules?

From what I've read, you've written a description of behavioral rules/guidelines. I did not see a statement regarding the consequences of not following the rules/guidelines (maybe there was a 2nd page, I've been reading this through my phone).

I like the agreement statement for Admirals and Fleet Captains -what are the consequences for them if they do not follow the rules/guidelines?.

You can make your rules/guidelines applicable to everyone by switching from the word "member" to "person" or providing a application clause at the start of your Code of Conduct "The following guidelines and rules apply to all persons within the stonewall gaming network".

Zander Hawk

I'll be honest, the code of conduct has served us well for along time. I will agree it's time for an update. I also like the WIP as a supplement or the a preamble. I would also add as long as you have the Stonewall banner over your head you need to act with dignity and respect not just to fellow Stonewallers but to all players

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys,

Quote by Dax_aussie_boy

I wouldn't mind seeing a third bit as a general rule of thumb of all members in its own category referring to a more common sense and etiquette of behaviour when respecting those of different nationality, sexuality, gender, intelligence and so on. Maybe following the "K.I.S.S" method would be a good idea. (Keep it simple silly).

Being honest Dax, I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Are you saying we should go into detail about how you should behave when dealing with members of different cultures? Because honestly it would take a large document and probably a member-by-member breakdown of how people would like to be interacted with.

I do think as an LGBT community re-enforcing the point about using the correct pro-nouns may be a good idea though as the importance of this can't be understated.

Quote by kiddkasper

Also, people in the UK spell it: behaviour?

Thanks Kasper, I'll fix the mistakes I made. I make no secret that writing is not one of my strengths. I'm lucky if I can put a sentence together most of the time.

But yes we spell it behaviour. It does pose an interesting but not really "all that" important question though. Should I be writing in American English because most of our members are? Or should I write in British English because I'm British and I'm writing it.

..... We may need a TV debate to settle that one. :p

Re: mrgig00

Thanks for your feedback.

It's an interesting point I think you're making but you've kind of hit the nail on the head. I'm trying to make the code of conduct more general to allow for judgement calls from the leadership.

It can sound like a bad thing but it's not. There is no risk that a single admiral will look at one thing you've said or done, take it out of context, and then punish you for it. That's just not how we have ever conducted ourselves.

Context and intent are very important when dealing with behavioural issues and having the extra freedom to make judgement calls actually helps us to be less authoritarian when someone makes a bad joke or accidentally says the wrong thing and someone else is offended.

This doesn't mean people will be able to get away with bad behaviour, we have our warning systems in place and they will still apply.

About your second point, it's a great point and our leader NicholasJohn also expressed similar feelings to me. I will try and reword it in a way that remedies this.

Quote by denrist

I like the simplification, but perhaps it's a little over simplified. Seeing only the WIP version would make me go to an admiral/cap'n and ask what the *real rules* are ("So, what'll get me banned?"). However, I'm a little more outgoing than some others might be and have no problem going up to fleet leadership.

There is now way to make a more general, easier to read and understand, code of conduct but it still have the same level of detail.

Going a middle-of-the-road approach will simply allow members to bend the rules because it didn't specifically state that their exact action was wrong.

We are going with a more common sense approach and honestly anybody who can't understand that you should respect others, not post adult material and .. honestly .. not be a dick .. probably doesn't belong in a community with other living human beings.

And that's not me attacking you personally, I absolutely understand the point you're making but do we honestly believe the majority of people are reading the current code of conduct? I don't think so.

Anything we can do to help establish who are are and what we are about in an quick and easy to read manner is a good thing. Or at least, I think it is.

Quote by Zander_Hawk

Excellent points. Did the admins meet before this post went out? I know Halish was approved to work it but what's the aim, more loose and casual or more defined yet casual rules?

We didn't meet if you're talking about a Teamspeak meeting. However this has been up on the Admin forums for some time (quite a long time actually) and only recently I requested more feedback from the Admins on this and they advised we post it for public feedback.

I think it's clear what the aim is. To make a more clear, easy to understand, code of conduct that members will actually bother to read (hopefully).

This is JUST the code of conduct. This isn't a re-write of the entire welcome centre. The members handbook contains details of the disciplinary procedures.

Although the handbook is in need of new love as the code of conduct is.

Halish, there's always an assumption that things are clear, but just to make sure, and because this whole endeavor is a work in progress, I asked. So what about the consequences to not following the New or updated/revised CoC, will you include a section or statement that notes the consequences when people do not follow the Code of Conduct?

Zander Hawk

Quote by Halish

Quote by Dax_aussie_boy

I wouldn't mind seeing a third bit as a general rule of thumb of all members in its own category referring to a more common sense and etiquette of behaviour when respecting those of different nationality, sexuality, gender, intelligence and so on. Maybe following the "K.I.S.S" method would be a good idea. (Keep it simple silly).

Being honest Dax, I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Are you saying we should go into detail about how you should behave when dealing with members of different cultures? Because honestly it would take a large document and probably a member-by-member breakdown of how people would like to be interacted with.

I do think as an LGBT community re-enforcing the point about using the correct pro-nouns may be a good idea though as the importance of this can't be understated.

We don't need a big listing of what to do as such, but a short summary of what is expected of all members in all positions. Hence why is said K.I.S.S, Simple to understand, Straight to the point and No confusions when its interpreted by all members. E.g using correct pro-nouns for members that are gender neutral who don't use binary pro-nouns of identifying a gender to them.

If we are going to embrace community, then we need to show and lead by example of what is expected of members.

Quote by Zander_Hawk

Halish, there's always an assumption that things are clear, but just to make sure, and because this whole endeavor is a work in progress, I asked. So what about the consequences to not following the New or updated/revised CoC, will you include a section or statement that notes the consequences when people do not follow the Code of Conduct?

Zander Hawk

And i would strongly agree with what Zander_Hawk has said recently regarding consequences. If member are meant to follow the Code of Conduct, then there needs to be set of consequences which is laid out and agreed upon by the Community. If the Community of Stonewall is to be expected to follow the Code of Conduct then they ave as much say on the consequences of their actions if they were to do something wrong.

I hope i have cleared up the confusion. if not then i would gladly be willing to speak about it over TS, if it helps? Apologies in advance if what i wrote sounds blunt.

Dax

Quote by Zander_Hawk

Halish, there's always an assumption that things are clear, but just to make sure, and because this whole endeavor is a work in progress, I asked. So what about the consequences to not following the New or updated/revised CoC, will you include a section or statement that notes the consequences when people do not follow the Code of Conduct?

Zander Hawk

The Admirals discussed this at length in our meeting on Saturday and have agreed on some of the changes, To Halish' point about the consequnces that are listed in the member handbook; we decided that we would link that particular section to the Members Handbook section that discusses said consequences. In addition changes to the MHB are forthcoming.

Hope this helps :)

Quote by Parker

Quote by Zander_Hawk

Halish, there's always an assumption that things are clear, but just to make sure, and because this whole endeavor is a work in progress, I asked. So what about the consequences to not following the New or updated/revised CoC, will you include a section or statement that notes the consequences when people do not follow the Code of Conduct?

Zander Hawk

The Admirals discussed this at length in our meeting on Saturday and have agreed on some of the changes, To Halish' point about the consequnces that are listed in the member handbook; we decided that we would link that particular section to the Members Handbook section that discusses said consequences. In addition changes to the MHB are forthcoming.

Hope this helps :)

So the Code of Conduct will guide the reader to a link that will connect them to a page showing a statement of consequences for not following the Code of Conduct -you could do this or centralize everything on one page.

Zander Hawk

The CoC is meant to be a short and simple to understand 1-sheet if you will. Where the MHB contains the bulk. There is more to the MHB than the CoC so I think Reference links to pertinent parts of the MHB embedded in the CoC will suffice.

Quote by Parker

The CoC is meant to be a short and simple to understand 1-sheet if you will. Where the MHB contains the bulk. There is more to the MHB than the CoC so I think Reference links to pertinent parts of the MHB embedded in the CoC will suffice.

Of course, the membership handbook would contain pretty much everything (including your Code of Conduct), whereas your Code of Conduct page, would simply highlight your Code of Conduct displaying your behavioral and punitive rules or in your arrangement, links to your punitive rules.

Zander Hawk