On weapons modifiers

Hi guys, I know there are reams of Reddit threads devoted to this business but i'm hoping some kind Stonewall citizen can break it down.

I'm no Min-Maxer but I would like to up my deepsability somewhat. At the moment most of my beam arrays are [crtd]x2 [acc] but I'm beginning to understand these may not be that great (because something something FAW something).

Does anyone have thoughts on what a more desirable combination would be? I know epic Antiproton-crtdx3-pen-whatevs are the gold standard but I hate the noise they make SO MUCH.

I'm not terribly EC wealthy, so I'd rather use crafted or rep weapons than farm the exchange.

here's a HUGE tip craft them at MK 2, because when you upgrade them between 2-10 there's a possibility they can go UR or even Epic. As far as mods go, I'm perfectly content with CritD x2 and Acc X2 which I think you can find on the fleet store. but anything with CritD x2 is sufficient. And energy type is really based on what your build is. Science drain boat is going to use Polaron and a ship with an inherent Phaser/Disruptor ability like the Phantom or Chimera is going to use that energy type. So if you're wondering what energy type would be good for you, put in a build through the Shipwright and we'll check it out

Hey,

To be honest unless you're trying to squeeze every last point of DPS out of a build, the weapon modifiers aren't overly important.

Right now the darlings are; CRTD, DMG & PEN, with the ideal being DMGx3 or CRTDx3.

Regarding the sound sadly nothing can be done if you want to use Antiproton (which have the 'best' proc in the game). I would recommend disruptors though as a suitable replacement.

Finally obtaining these things. The best option is to craft yourself. Start with MK II beams. Keep crafting until you get a mod combination you like (this can take dozens of attempts for CRTDx3). Use the Omega Particle Tech Upgrade (requires 3 x Omega Fragment to craft, currently ~1mil ec each) as well as a Major Research boost (currently around 2.4mil ec) and you should have a 40% chance of the first upgrade. This will also get you to around MK VII and is easy to get epic level items. It will then only take a few superior upgrades to get to MKXIV.

Any questions holla at me in game @KnightChucky

Thanks folks. I'll try not to get too hung up on it, I'm doing a respectable output with my mk XIV's but grinding out mk II's is a good idea. I got a bunch of cheap mk ii agony phasers off the exchange so let's see what happens with those.

I've been kind of working on pumping up my DPS too...there's a thread on here somewhere that has some pretty good tips. Using tac weapon skills, attack patterns, emergency power to weps etc before you open fire gives you some substantial DPS boosts.

I'm not so sure the energy type actually matters too terribly much, as long as you're not mixing it up (pha+dis+pla+ap etc). I was doing that thinking it would be more versatile in dealing with resistances no matter what I was up against, but then you can't really go all-in on your tac consoles.

My main (SCI) has been switched over to an all tetryon shield-ripper style which works nicely in combination with the exotic damage skills. My Romulan (ENG) is so far chewing through just about everything with an all plasma beams/consoles build, and flying the Ha'apax warbird (probably the tankiest ship I've had so far) has helped. It's insanely slow, but can just shrug off an enormous amount of punishment. I chose it because of the 125th Rule of Acquisition: You can't make a deal if you're dead.

Lawson, I hear ya about the sound antiproton weapons make......

Energy weapon type actually is very important, and one reason AP is popular amongst min maxer is that other than the energy weapon skills it does scale of any other skills. other energy type PROCS scale off different skills.

Phaser and Disruptors scale of Subspace Decompiler
Tetryon and Polaron scale of Flow Capacitor
Plasma scale of Particle Generators

In General Tertyon and Plasma are the redheaded bastard stepchildren of Energy Weapon Types. There's a lot of abilities that bypass shields which makes Tetryon absolutely useless. And the Proc from plasma can we cleared off by hazard emitters. When you want to put the hurt on an enemy ship you want your procs to count.

I switched almost all of my Science ships over to tetryon-based weapons because of the synergy between the OP science abilities and destroying shields.

I've found plasma to work well with my engineers too, polaron as well. It's also just so colourful ;)

For mods, it really depends on what you can afford. The advanced fleet dmgx3 crtd weapons are respectable now. If you really want pens, then you can find them on the exchange. (Just because you crafted it yourself doesn't mean it was free....)

As for energy type, the differences aren't that big when it comes to the proc. AP is the best for damage. It gives a 20%*crth cat-2 bonus, which for me is maybe 2% or 3% of that weapon's damage. When non-weapon damage is counted (plasma explosion, kemo, etc.), it's an even smaller percentage of the total. The other procs do less.

Disruptor is not affected by subd (subd buffs subsystem shutdowns and disruptor's proc is a damage resistance debuff) and partg doesn't affect plasma's proc (the devs have said that if it comes from a weapon, then it's not affected by part gens, except for the procs on the gravimetric and PEP torps).

For more on the math behind mods and procs, here's the bible: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/2yront/the_hard_and_soft_numbers_on_weapon_mods_and_procs/

Somehow last night I managed to top the ISE dps tables with my ops command ship so I don't even know any more. Looking at that reddit, it seems (if not spending millions on [pen] mods) crtd/dmg more slightly more sensible than crtd/acc? I understand fire at will doesn't rely on this "accuracy to crit chance overflow".

That said, I've already spent all that dil on [crtd]x2 [acc] radiant AP's so my skin crawls at the thought of replacing them. And I haven't even touched on torpedoes!

Eh then stick with those weapons. Piloting, consoles, stacking boff abilities, etc., all do a lot more for DPS numbers than weapons mods. So push the number up with the weapons you have and then, down the line, worry about the weapons themselves.

Yeah, extra acc goes to crtd and crth but one full acc mod becomes 1/4 of crth and crtd, so you lose like half a mod there. Acc overflow works on the main target with FAW, so 1/2 of your shots will benefit from it when FAW is up and all of your shots when FAW isn't up. This is because the extra shots from FAW bypass the accuracy mechanic because they always hit.

Good advice. I've a couple of consoles overdue for an upgrade.

I personally go for DMG modifiers over anything else on whatever weapon I can find. Second choice is ACC. I feel it's better to hit my target for reliable damage every time, than to rely on random chance.

As for Proc types, it happens rarely, so I tend to use multiple different types on the same ship. That way, I have various different effects. It's more or less random anyway. I do tend to stay away from plasma, simply because the effect is more or less useless. I also don't use disruptors by choice. The proc is beyond useless. I currently have a disruptor array on my carrier right now, only because it's a super rare unique with useful effects other than just lowering DR.

Revvy, i am really really sorry but i am going to have to disagree with you there.

DMG is a solid modifier for sure as is ACC. However there are so many other good modifiers out there, especially around critical hit change/damage which generally are the preferred mods because they consistently give the best damage boost (as measured by DPS meters).

As for your second point about weapon types, this is actually the exact opposite of what an optimised build would look like normally. Currently the best way to boost weapon damage is by using tactical consoles. While it is possible to get non specific consoles like beam or cannon consoles that work for all weapon types the damage boost they give is alot lower than for specific weapon types. The standard way to build a ship these days is you pick a weapon type (disruptor and antiproton are popular as they are consistently the best performers damage wise because of their procs). You then buy tactical consoles for that weapon type to get the most damage out of them.

Also i would suggest that for weapon types like disruptor where the proc stacks you find having multiple of the same weapon type allows the proc to be up almost all the time and as a sci captain who specialises in shredding resistance, i can tell you its very effective.

Quote by Gravity

Revvy, i am really really sorry but i am going to have to disagree with you there.

DMG is a solid modifier for sure as is ACC. However there are so many other good modifiers out there, especially around critical hit change/damage which generally are the preferred mods because they consistently give the best damage boost (as measured by DPS meters).

As for your second point about weapon types, this is actually the exact opposite of what an optimised build would look like normally. Currently the best way to boost weapon damage is by using tactical consoles. While it is possible to get non specific consoles like beam or cannon consoles that work for all weapon types the damage boost they give is alot lower than for specific weapon types. The standard way to build a ship these days is you pick a weapon type (disruptor and antiproton are popular as they are consistently the best performers damage wise because of their procs). You then buy tactical consoles for that weapon type to get the most damage out of them.

Also i would suggest that for weapon types like disruptor where the proc stacks you find having multiple of the same weapon type allows the proc to be up almost all the time and as a sci captain who specialises in shredding resistance, i can tell you its very effective.

Have to agree here, the ultimate golden goose right now is Coalition Disruptor [critd]x3 [pen] because it has a higher Disruptor proc than normal disruptors. How this will shake out in 11.5 with the new skill tree is something we'll have to see.

I suppose you're right. I just prefer more than just DPS. I rather enjoy the various different procs. It's very satisfying to see your enemy's shields randomly drop, etc.

I enjoy the variety as well. I'm not a huge DPS'er. I've never been much of a PvP type either (frankly, I would rather work WITH other people rather than AGAINST them.) Since most of my ships are either science or engineering vessels (I NEVER use tactical ships or characters), the random effects are pretty useful from time to time.

I've tried to use Anti-proton weapons, but I just don't like them. Their effects just weren't noticeable when I was using them (admittedly that was a LONG time ago). It just wasn't as rewarding as multiple different weapons in my opinion.

I agree that if you are going to nothing but DPS, then sure, your way is the best. It's just not as enjoyable for me, personally. :)

Quote by revvy

I've never been much of a PvP type either (frankly, I would rather work WITH other people rather than AGAINST them.)

Amen to that.

Quote by revvy

I've tried to use Anti-proton weapons, but I just don't like them. Their effects just weren't noticeable when I was using them (admittedly that was a LONG time ago). It just wasn't as rewarding as multiple different weapons in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings on this. Having tried multiple different energy types I do have to say that AP is definitely the one with the most DPS output so I use it on my main's primary boat. I just despise that honking noise they make. :S

• On my ENG Romulan, I'll go all-in for the New Romulus reputation gear on his warbird, and of course all of that is pure plasma. I've tried out a few of them on other ships just to see what they're like, and they aren't bad at all.
• I love the (chronometric) polaron weapons on my SCI main's fighter, which is geared out with the polaron-oriented Jem'Hadar space set, and for a small craft she's a nasty little beast when it comes to damage.
• I also bought a Tholian Meshweaver escort for my SCI main just for funsies, and I'm doing a Nukara reputation build on it just to stick with the Tholian theme, and honestly I have no complaints about the tetryon output or procs. Once the enemy's shields are (almost immediately) down, a dual quantum-torp spread dishes out plenty of damage.

Honestly if like me you're not really a min-max type rolling in EC to burn on the expensive weapons, do whatever. Ultimately it all comes down to knowing your boat, your play style, piloting and space combat skill more than any particular energy format anyway. You can have best-in-slot all you like but if your skill isn't up to par for the battle, none of that's gonna help.

I will say that having done the "multiple formats on one boat" thing, that isn't something I'd do again just because the specialized tactical consoles pump output a lot more than the generic ones. I pick one theme per boat and stick with it. I say play whatever you have the most fun with -- it is a game after all.

See your Boff abilities should also be dependent on your energy type. Polaron is an energy draining Energy Type, mix it with the Plasmonic Leech Console or even a Tykens Rift and Drain energy, you can shut down and lock down an enemy ship.

With 11.5 Tertyon will lose usefulness yet again, 11.5 will have a skill that will give a flat penetrate shields %, when tetryon's main proc is to drain shields but it's going straight to hull the prog might as well not be there.

Disruptors and Attack Pattern Beta is a killer combination, especially if every one else on your team is using disruptors as well. Disruptors have a proc that reduces resistance to disruptors, Attack Pattern Beta debuffs anyone who is hit by energy weapons. Combine the two, especially if the entire team is using disruptors, will just demolish a target.

And I can list many other killer energy type/BOFF combos

And finally while we appreciate that you like to fly builds for thematic/lore reasons the game can be quite punishing with regards to rewards at times and if a PvE or battlezone instance has multiple people flying unoptimised builds it can impact the success of the whole group.

To make your PvE life easier consider a secondary build that is likely to carry you through the tough content when it is needed. Tt is surprisingly cheap to put one together with reputation and fleet gear and we are of course happy to advise on this topic.